Alps Haircuts

[adam-ryan]

Please move the discussion here, whatever to be done will be decided by Sunday.
The haircuts are a tradition that evolved from giving "cool" haircuts between the boys, to what it was last time; someone who had previously got a haircut could adopt a fresher and give them any haircut they wanted.
I understand traditions change, I would like a solution that keeps the spirit of the club without stifling new ideas.

[ciaraobrien]

Hear me out: girls give the lads haircuts as a bridge the gap initiative #shepaddles

[eidindowling]

Just wondering why we’re voting on this if figuring out alps haircuts had already been assigned to Eoin in an alps sub-committee meeting? (Not trying to start an argument just want to know)


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[danielhorgan]

My opinion:
I personally don’t have an issue with the way things were. I also wouldn’t be opposed to potentially turning the haircuts into something that makes a bit of money for the ICRR or the likes of it. But the details discussed in the chat were less than ideal I think:

Alps haircuts have always been a bit of craic or fun between the people heading on the trip. Sure there’s a tradition that if you’ve been on the alps and gotten a haircut then you are eligible to give one provided there is someone willing – which is key otherwise it is actually hazing. Absolutely the guys have been encouraged to do this but its never been mandated. It’s not now nor previously ever been a prerequisite for the trip that you agree to having your hair cut. Maybe it’s gone unsaid because it obvious but everyone has always had the choice, you weren’t going to get kicked out of the club or not be allowed go on the trip if you didn’t. In MOST cases the lads get them the girls don’t: which proves that there’s no reason you can’t say no, hence not hazing. I believe if I had chosen not to get a haircut in first year for whatever reason that would have been fine. Maybe we need to make an effort to clearly state that in the future. I think what has happened is that people are getting confused with thinking that their eligibility to give a hair cut means they have the right to any male freshers head. Yet realistically with numbers of freshers to members on the trip who are eligible means that someone’s probably not going to get to give a haircut (this year may be an exception with numbers because of covid etc).

I think it’s a really bad idea is for the committee or any of us to decide what happens to the freshers heads. Not a committee decision, never has been and shouldn’t be. The message Adam sent in saying that “victims have no say, I’m not letting go of this tradition” is bollocks because that was never the tradition. The only rule is that if you got one you can give one. If it’s your first year in the alps your encouraged to join in and have the craic with it BUT If people don’t want a haircut they don’t have to get one that’s common pickling sense and decency. If Haircutee gives Haircutter permission to do what they will, then they can.
An auction to see who gets a head to cut is a terrible idea. It’s not a fair playing field. Students are broke AF. If I had to bid for someone’s head I’m out. I’m borrowing money to be able to go on the trip in the first place. It also means that anyone who’s gotten a haircut in the past loses their eligibility to give one(not really a big deal, but not that sound).

There’s also nothing to say that a haircut given has to be shit. Nor is it a male only event. Guys haircuts in previous years have mostly been shit but that’s up to what the haircutter wanted. Previous years have seen Undercuts and dye’s from the girls.. Personally I was interested in doing something experimental with the potential to be pretty cool on Toto’s head this year.
But if a change is needed to leave out the calling of heads and pressure to get a haircut etc then this is what I propose.

Proposal:
Above all else, common sense must prevail. And decency or soundness or whatever you wanna call it.

1. GET RID OF THE VOTE! It’s down the freshers coming on the trip if they want their heads scuttered. Not us. If we call it a unofficial tradition like it has been its fine. If we vote then we’re taking the power to say no from people.
2. Suggest to anyone on the trip that if they want to get a haircut or dye their hair or make any change for a fundraiser then they’re more than welcome. (Gender inclusive – we all have hair)
3. Continue the “if you have got one you can give one rule”. Explicitly 1 haircut received = 1 eligibility pass for the following year.(Means people can get haircuts 2nd and 3rd time to the alps if they wish to cut someone’s hair the following year)
4. To suss the craic of some eligible haircutters not getting the chance to cut someone’s hair because they already all been “dibsed” or for whatever reason, you could potentially run a lottery system. For example: let’s say there’s 8 on the trip willing to have their hair cut and 12 people eligible to give a haircut. Put the 12 into a hat and pull 8 names from it. Cool now we know who’s giving the haircuts this year. Put the 8 haircutee’s names into a hat have each of the haircutters pull a name there you go fair and square everyone has equal chance to give a haircut and the people getting them get to watch in horror as they realise so and so pulled their name. If it’s a case where someone who’s given a haircut in the past is pulled out over someone who has not then whoever hasn’t gets priority.

Now come the conditionals:

If people want to take the opportunity of being abroad where you won’t see anyone you know and get a bad haircut to raise funds, let them. We can encourage them, offer a helping hand in setting up a donation link, pass around a bucket at the event, live-stream it and get a live link where people can donate to if they wish.

If people just want to get a haircut for the craic, let them. If people don’t want haircuts, leave them. Because you can’t tell someone they have to get a pickling haircut. I really don’t think that has been the case ever.

If people didn’t want to get shit haircuts for the trip they could always go back to the days of cool designs if they trust someone to have a go.

Conclusion:
The main thing is get rid of the vote so that the committee nor anyone who voted get NO say on haircuts because that has nothing to do with them. Nothing personal, I love ye all. I just don’t want to be a part of a club who thinks what happens to my hair is up to them.
Benefit of doing this means that:
1. We are being more explicit about people’s choice to get a haircut or not.
2. Anyone going on the trip is encouraged get one. Freshers and older members which means potentially more money for a fundraiser. Less of a segregation between freshers and older members. Less hazey if you will. Wasn’t hazing in the first place IMO but anyway.
3. Being sound to the people who’ve already gotten haircuts and “tradition” is still alive and can continue.
4. No “dibsing” heads, everyone has a fair chance.

[jillpf]

I think Dan has made some really valid points above and I definitely agree with a lot of them and I think it's essential that we keep a voluntary and fun culture around it all!

I like the idea of the mix of traditions and new ideas. However, I do think it could potentially be a more inclusive event for the whole club if people not going Alps can get hair 'dos' we shall call them and also potentially give them? Maybe if they're willing to get one themselves this year? (just since not everyone has or will have the option to go Alps) I've clearly never gotten one so I don't feel that strongly that you would have had to get one in the past to give one this year.

And as much I do agree with the auction idea for fundraising reasons. I want to just clarify that I was always under the impression (from Eoin particularly as it was his idea) that having your head auctioned would be voluntary!

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[LaurenKavanagh]

I'm a bit confused as to why we're grasping at straws to turn the haircuts into a fundraiser.
I'd love to see a charity fundraiser but not sure if this is the most suitable event to be tryna tie it into. Ideally with a fundraiser we'd be outreaching to external sources for money (as well as internal donations). The only people that'll be at the Alps BBQ are people that are going on the trips and other heavily involved club members and friends etc... This is not a very suitable crowd to be tryna raise money from imo. People are broke and struggling to the pay for the trip as is.
I have no problem tryna raise money for the ICRR, I just think there's better ways to do it. In a rush before the Alps also feels like a bit of a disservice.

TL,DR
Why are we creating a fundraiser designed to collect money from our own members as opposed to working together to create a fundraiser aimed at raising money from external sources??

[SamOC]

Plenty of people have refused hair cuts in the Alps for a multitude of reasons and rightfully so. Should always be consentual. I remember my first year I asked for a mullet because I would be working summer camps. I hear mullets are all the rage now and are pretty handy to fix with a 1 blade back and sides.

I think the tradition of being able to give one only if youve gotten one is pretty fair. Lauren got an undercut, Karen and one other girl dyed their hair purple as well. Wouldn't say the girls have been excluded they've always been encouraged to dye their hair to very little avail.

I think people should definitely be encouraged to get some sort of haircut but If they chose not to that's their choice.

I don't think there's any harm in just having a whipround of donations at the BBQ. Whether you put in 50 cent or a tenner that's fine. It doesn't have to be the only fundraiser done.

[eidindowling]

I agree with everybody that it should be a choice and I think that’s what eoin was doing with the auction. More people had a choice to put their head for auction etc. I’m not sure so correct me if I’m wrong but that’s what I gathered. But I see if it’s not feasible money wise. Again think it was eoins attempt at making it more of a choice while also combing a charity aspect.

I don’t know why there is such a pressure on first timer boys going to the alps to get their haircut and saying they have no choice etc. I am not sure but it could create some anxiety around it for some who aren’t sure of their hair cut as they might be going on coop or something. Again idk I’m just putting myself in the spot and ild be worried.

Maybe changing it to everybody can opt to do a haircut regardless of how many times you’ve been to the alps is the way to do it. So first years can do it but they don’t have to. If it doesn’t suit them to do it this year, they’ll get another chance next year. Or if you want to do it all 4 of ur years do it. Also gives girls an option to opt in because I feel the girls were very excluded this year. This is solely based on the list of participants put in the alps gc of people that were allegedly getting their hair cut. Not 1 girl was asked did they want to participate even though some did want to get a haircut. Apparently it was traditionally shave or die and given the number of girls in the club they should be included as much as the boys and be given the option to participate too etc. as Dan said 1 cut= 1 cut next year. The dye bit would have to be ironed out.

If you were to add a charity thing you could just get a sponsorship card or something saying I’m doing shave or dye to raise funds for charity so u want to sponsor. Would take pressure off of college students trying to get money together and bring in external contributions. Or could make a go fund me. Might be a bigger incentive for people to do it rather than tradition.

And about people saying can’t break tradition I completely disagree. If it’s a change for the better and making a new updated tradition I can’t see the problem.


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[Eoin OShaughnessy]

I hadn't really planned the auction idea yet, kinda just in the idea phase just the message into the group chat about the haircuts made me have to bring it up. I was still at the asking people's opinions stage and hadn't asked everyone I intended yet about it.

I think that everyone on the trip should have the choice, I don't think everyone has to choose going to auction. I was thinking of these being options with each boy or girl choosing what they want

1. Don't get a haircut
2. Agree with someone that they can cut your hair
3. Get a haircut with conditions (eg. only get to cut up to 4 inches on long hair or don't draw a cock on my head cause I'm the chief scout etc)
4. Dye your hair
5. Pick a previous person who got a haircut last time out of a hat
6. Auction it for charity
7. Raffle tickets to cut a head for charity (will probably get a worse haircut if someone has paid to do it tbh)

It's still in the idea phase

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[fiacoghlan]

Shauggy, great idea

[Eoghan_ODuffy]

Unrelated suggestion: can the captain get a haircut from the fresher who has the worst haircut